The End of Identity Liberalism - NYTimes.com

The End of Identity Liberalism SHARE By MARK LILLA November 18, 2016 It is a truism that America has become a more diverse country. It is also a beautiful thing to watch. Visitors from other countries, particularly those having trouble incorporating different ethnic groups and faiths, are amazed that we manage to pull it off. Not perfectly, of course, but certainly better than any European or Asia...

The New York Times admits "identity liberalism has failed spectacularly". link
  • PrisonPlanet HAHA! reading this tweet while sipping coffee from my LIBERAL TEARS mug link RT to cause more lib

  • Prebel (PaulaMorin6)

    PrisonPlanet nytimes A little to late considering every damn college campus is full of screwed up kids who are violent over this shit

  • Kristen (gurllikenoother)

    PaulaMorin6 PrisonPlanet nytimes If that's not the truth!!!' Great tweet !!!!

  • Prebel (PaulaMorin6)

    gurllikenoother PrisonPlanet nytimes sadly it is.

  • Kristen (gurllikenoother)

    PaulaMorin6 PrisonPlanet nytimes Yes, very sad! Not genuinely teaching acceptance at all!!!

  • Prebel (PaulaMorin6)

    gurllikenoother PrisonPlanet nytimes not teaching at all, filling heads full of propaganda

  • Kristen (gurllikenoother)

    PaulaMorin6 PrisonPlanet nytimes Right again! So sad!!!!!

  • John Plissken (D34D1337P00L)

    PrisonPlanet Not just "Identity Liberalism", but "Liberalism" as a whole.

  • Gary Michalosky (garymic)

    PrisonPlanet Personally, I'm done sharing and ever reading anything with the nytimes. They need to read themselves in front of a mirror!

  • PrisonPlanet Hillary lost the election because she's a corrupt POS & SM called her out - period

  • S-M Robinson (sunoxen)

    PrisonPlanet The only way that the Democratic Party can rebuild is if they admit they ran down this blind alley.

  • Sovereign (dissident641)

    PrisonPlanet Beware the hat-in-hand reporting of NYT. They are attempting to win back consumers and lull them into complacency.

  • Sarcasm Robot (SarcasmRobot)

    PrisonPlanet change that to “liberalism has failed” and it is still correct

  • . PrisonPlanet "You can now choose from 37 genders on Tinder...it's called why democrats lost the election" Colin Jost, SNL weekend update

  • Colin C (WinPropP)

    PrisonPlanet nytimes Smart people are interested in ideas not identity politics

  • DoringHaak (DoringHaak)

    PrisonPlanet nytimes Yep The message to you MSM we don't care what you want or think

  • janet l (winojanet)

    prisonplanet And yet they continue to sing that old song. Old habits hard to break. Thank voters for the intervention.

  • PrisonPlanet nytimes Wonder how it's going with the three lawsuits for racism? link

The End of Identity Liberalism link
  • Colorado Grandma (CoFemale)

    As MLK said. "judge him on his character and NOT by the color of my skin''. This is what TheDemocrats forgot. SamHarrisOrg CounterMoonbat

  • SamHarrisOrg LadyVeteran23 nytimes I agree in principle with this article, set aside all the raging butthurt about the election.

  • Joseph_Brand0 SamHarrisOrg nytimes its what I've been saying! link

  • LadyVeteran23 I try to learn something new here everyday. Your insight has impacted my belief. Thank you & thanks for serving our country!

  • Paul Barry (The_Ipol)

    Joseph_Brand0 LadyVeteran23 Will mention that I'm a big fan of Charles Ramsey.

  • Colorado Grandma (CoFemale)

    We are all people and should be judged on a case by case basis. Everyone has good and bad people. SamHarrisOrg CounterMoonbat

  • Polemicist (JT91thePresent)

    SamHarrisOrg CounterMoonbat Please elaborate on how affirmative action or BLM have "improved" anything. Spoiler: You can't

  • Ben Husmann (benhusmann)

    samharrisorg get Lilla on your podcast!

  • Ben Husmann (benhusmann)

    samharrisorg or better yet get Glenn back on your podcast and discuss this article.

  • Shane99 (Xehnas)

    SamHarrisOrg Good luck with that. "Diversity" is a religion that the left has successfully indoctrinated children into for several decades.

  • SamHarrisOrg Sam, I love listening to your take on the dishonesty and narcissism of suspect thinkers. When will you tackle GadSaad?

  • Coral (EndlessCoral)

    ADeplorableJew SamHarrisOrg GadSaad This is vague. You think Gad is a a suspect thinker? If so, why?

  • EndlessCoral SamHarrisOrg GadSaad Just one example: He blocks anyone that suggests that advertising and marketing can be immoral.

  • EndlessCoral SamHarrisOrg Combines safe-space mentality with an irrational self-certainty typically reserved for the worst of ideologues.

  • Coral (EndlessCoral)

    ADeplorableJew SamHarrisOrg Also, the safe-space mentality is laughable. He willing debates anyone, and spreads his ideas.

  • EndlessCoral SamHarrisOrg He's fine (and even interesting) in person. I'm going to guess you don't follow him on social media though.

  • Coral (EndlessCoral)

    ADeplorableJew SamHarrisOrg I do. He's a character and has a big sense of humor and occasionally says 'castrati.' Doesn't bother me.

  • Yakov Hirsch (YakovHirsch)

    What about jkirchick identity? Please learn who it is you're retweeting. linkSamHarrisOrg robertwrighter

  • Stephanie JOY Smith (FreedTV)

    SamHarrisOrg sherlockmichael nytimes The extra specialness of every life is not reality. It's going to come crashing down.

  • SamHarrisOrg sherlockmichael nytimes The Socialist Leftist Democrat Party creates subgroups, makes them victims then manipulates them..

Mark Lilla essay is best thing I've read all week: "the age of identity liberalism must be brought to an end." link
  • JonHaidt nytimes The defence of the disenfranchised must not morph into the dehumanization of the powerful. That's not true liberalism

  • Jonathan Haidt (JonHaidt)

    PierreLeFevre18 nytimes nicely put, but it's not even the true powerful; its all members of certain groups, even those who r not powerful

  • JonHaidt nytimes Agree.

  • Lexi Suppes (suplexi)

    JonHaidt though the age of identity conservatism has just begun #whiteidentity

  • Jonathan Haidt (JonHaidt)

    suplexi yes! its evil spawn

  • Doug (84Rugby)

    JonHaidt I read it between the lines as "Keep up the identity politics just cloak it better."

  • Mr. West  ?? (Joe1West)

    84Rugby And this is downright disgusting: "Black Lives Matter has delivered a wake-up call to every American with a conscience." #BLM

  • Mr. West  ?? (Joe1West)

    84Rugby The notion that I don't have a conscience is a) absurd, and b) very close to the very identity politics ostensibly criticized.

  • Curt Doolittle (curtdoolittle)

    JonHaidt (Thank you for this pointer JH)

  • jacoxnet (jacoxnet)

    JonHaidt The flaw in this argument is evidence that rise in white identity might be caused by actual diversity not just liberal rhetoric.

  • JonHaidt I think acknowledging disadvantaged groups is good for policy, but when exploited for politics, affects unity of the nation.

  • KatanaOfLogic I agree. Sadly the policies meant to make an ideal society serve to split it up. Celebrate progress. Then work for betterment

  • ehaspel (ehaspel)

    . JonHaidt given that PoC do worse on nearly all outcomes even when class is controlled, how can we ignore identity? Our system was (1/2)

  • ehaspel (ehaspel)

    . JonHaidt built to privilege certain identities (whites) and disadvantage others-a broader liberalism is needed but can't lose sight (2/2)

  • Jendago S (Jenglish1987)

    JonHaidt nytimes What a clear and useful article. Nearly as engaging as you Jon. Love your lecture on 'sacred values'! PerspicAtheist

The End of Identity Liberalism link
  • Em (embellydance)

    sapinker nytimes Puhlease. Is there any data that focusing on diversity reduces awareness of outside conditions/groups?

  • Matt James (Ziggomattic)

    embellydance sapinker nytimes It would seem we collected some November 8th.

  • Em (embellydance)

    Ziggomattic sapinker nytimes very scientific

  • John Newman (johnmn3)

    embellydance Ziggomattic sapinker nytimes Apparently more scientific than the polls.

  • Em (embellydance)

    johnmn3 Ziggomattic sapinker nytimes Well it's great to see science dying along with this country's ideals. Way to go, guys.

  • Matt James (Ziggomattic)

    embellydance johnmn3 sapinker nytimes Relax, nobody is going to say anything more powerful than your confirmation bias.

  • Em (embellydance)

    Ziggomattic johnmn3 sapinker nytimes I asked to see data to back up claims in the Op-Ed. Why am I getting accused of confirmation bias?

  • sapinker nytimes no, information breaches by foreign powers, voter suppression & axe-grinders within the FBI cost *us* this election.

  • Jon Boda (integralvdu)

    dreamjar sapinker nytimes can be multiple things, but libs would be foolish to ignore this aspect

  • integralvdu sapinker nytimes Fair. I think Dems were foolish to take Michigan and Wisconsin and big parts of their base for granted.

  • sapinker Let's hope so. Identity politics needs to die a quick death. It's already done way too much damage to our social cohesion.

  • sapinker the ONLY fair society is one that assures equality of opportunity, not of outcome. Eq. of opportunity and then come what may.

  • sapinker nytimes how good it is to be a rich white liberal man. You make me sick.

  • theonlyadult you haven't learned anything

  • GoodVib59414700 We won by 2 million votes.

  • theonlyadult still haven't learned anything link

  • GoodVib59414700 So you've got nothing. What a boring little troll.

  • Martin (ohlilybelle)

    sapinker nytimes For a linguist you post a lot of manipulative rhetorical bullshit.

Identity politics never wins elections. But it can lose them. link via nytopinion
  • reading0101 (reading0101)

    nytimes nytopinion Left has used "Divide & Conquer" tactics for a long time now & you can see the results. They've created hate & division

  • eigenscape (eigenscape)

    reading0101 nytimes nytopinion No, stop projecting. Donald Trump has created hate and division.

  • reading0101 (reading0101)

    eigenscape nytimes nytopinion ... The insane amount of division we have had over the last few years is 100% on Obama and the Dems!

  • eigenscape (eigenscape)

    reading0101 nytimes nytopinion Nope. It's due to Trump's hateful and targeted rhetoric. Obama has always called for calm and unity.

  • reading0101 (reading0101)

    eigenscape nytimes nytopinion You need to expand your mind and research techniques. It sounds like your hate and bigotry blinds you.

  • NoKings (jobelenus)

    . nytimes nytopinion don't you realize white nationalism is identity politics? And it just won an election?

  • Hopey_70 (Hopey_70)

    jobelenus nytimes nytopinion of course it's a white dude trying to tell us black & brown folks it's our fault white people are mad. Ok. link

  • NoKings (jobelenus)

    Hopey_70 it's 100% white folks fault. NYT has no idea wtf they talking about

  • Hopey_70 (Hopey_70)

    jobelenus We wouldnt be in this situation if it werent for white folks. All black/brown folk want is equality but i guess thats 2 much

  • Hopey_70 jobelenus No - it is the vitality of democracy. It's also apparently too much threat to people who see equality as loss for them.

  • Hopey_70 (Hopey_70)

    CHURCHLADY320 jobelenus apparently. i just wonder why the folks who are threatened by this call themselves a liberal.

  • Hopey_70 jobelenus It takes a major mind snarl to be racist and pretend you're for equality. Just not too much, of course... SMDH.

  • NoKings (jobelenus)

    CHURCHLADY320 they never say "equality" they saw "they should be happy with what they have", e.g. threat to make it worse Hopey_70

  • blurred times (wrongwaylbj)

    nytimes nytopinion Sure, let's feed into the WN narrative that diversity is a bad thing. Let's call civil rights "identity politics."

  • pamela m (pamela___m)

    nytimes nytopinion this has to be written by a white male.

  • (((Nasty Cajsa))) (Cajsa)

    nytimes nytopinion you cannot even see that whiteness is an identity politic, too.

  • Cajsa nytimes nytopinion White is the definition of 'normal' to white people. Everything else measured against that.

  • Sue the Fury (SueTheFury)

    nytimes nytopinion link

I notice it's liberals, not the left, who are attempting, post-election, to sell out feminist & antiracist politics. link
  • kunktation karpmj orthodox Trot Mark Lilla

  • Matt Karp (karpmj)

    ckilpatrick kunktation the #1 answer to Donald Trump's victory is definitely more high school courses on the founding fathers

  • karpmj kunktation between Lilla's Rx and twitter ID liberalism, I'm with the latter

  • kunktation nytimes notice that his rejection of "ID politics" is nothing more than embracing reactionary ID politics, not solidarity

  • #J20 Rockoff (rockoffj)

    kunktation karpmj nytimes litmus test for validity of ID politics critique is whether author can resist discussing bathrooms. This fails

  • Vivian (VanguardVivian)

    Must be nice to be able to take it for granted that you’ll be allowed to pee. rockoffj kunktation karpmj nytimes destroyed4com4t

  • #J20 Rockoff (rockoffj)

    VanguardVivian kunktation karpmj nytimes destroyed4com4t huh? I'm saying if they make light of bathroom thing it should be ignored

  • #J20 Rockoff (rockoffj)

    VanguardVivian kunktation karpmj nytimes destroyed4com4t ID politics have problems but bathroom thing is not a valid critique

  • Pernicious Bovine (cowofevil)

    kunktation leninology nytimes um actually I'm a radical leftist feminist and i hated HRC for her foreign policy that murders women...

  • Pernicious Bovine (cowofevil)

    kunktation leninology nytimes ... so no, can't say that HRC was "at her best" discussing foreign policy. not sure where you got that idea

  • Pernicious Bovine (cowofevil)

    kunktation leninology nytimes "celebrating diversity" = not tokenizing old white lady whose husband put millions of brown ppl in prison

  • Pernicious Bovine (cowofevil)

    kunktation leninology nytimes that narrative is too complicated for this dude? here's a better take, from 2004 link

  • kunktation braceforMPCT Libs Nov 9: We can't focus on class at the expense of race Left Nov 9: DO BOTH Libs Nov 18: We must abandon race

  • Stu Watson (stuwatson)

    kunktation mark lilla's "the reckless mind" is the worst book I've ever read

  • Chingis Khan (chingis27)

    kunktation A lot of leftists & liberals blame IdPol, but we want to ground anti-racism, feminism etc. in class, libs want to abandon it.

  • Jonathan (FamousComposer)

    kunktation they're still gonna blame it on us

  • edsfern (edsdet)

    kunktation _SimonBlack nytimes The tell is the closing of this piece: The big debt of gratitude we owe Bill Clinton in the 90s.

  • kunktation Ah_occ_o Especially types like Hillary Clinton and those who align with her.

  • Echidne (Echidne)

    kunktation , link

  • T. (RickyRawls)

    kunktation a few prominent ones like Lee Fang and Zaid Jilani do seem to really like the article too though.

If we learn one lesson from this election, let it be this: Identity politics are toxic to civil society. link
  • Michael Powell (powellnyt)

    SarahTheHaider nytimes Not a great fan of identity politics but this essay is entirely speculative

  • Sarah Haider (SarahTheHaider)

    powellnyt nytimes It is all speculation at this point. What would you point to as a better explanation?

  • Michael Powell (powellnyt)

    . SarahTheHaider She was unpopular, went deeply negative, was status quo candidate in change election & won by nearly 2 million votes

  • Sarah Haider (SarahTheHaider)

    powellnyt True, but even her slogan signaled gender, her attacks focused on his behavior towards key factions, + Dem whites didn't show up

  • Michael Powell (powellnyt)

    SarahTheHaider But they did not show up for Obama and he was a two term president with high personal ratings.

  • Sarah Haider (SarahTheHaider)

    powellnyt I don't mean whites in general. Democratic whites in particular (who did show up for Obama): link

  • Michael Powell (powellnyt)

    SarahTheHaider Again, I am not fan of identity politics but I have seen no good data that this accounts for 3 very narrow margins of loss

  • powellnyt SarahTheHaider Identity politics pushed out blue collar workers, Trump scooped them up and gave middle finger back to Left

  • Nick McLean (Nocmclean)

    SarahTheHaider I wonder if there is an inverse relationship bw identity politics use getting votes and getting money. Good for fundraising.

  • Sarah Haider (SarahTheHaider)

    Nocmclean Interesting thought. SPLC has been raking it in.

  • SarahTheHaider I sincerely hope the nytimes goes under. But i agree that identity politics = trash people fling when they don't have facts

  • Sarah Haider (SarahTheHaider)

    adamsyouruncle nytimes You hope that the paper that printed this (honest) article goes under? How about wishing they print more like this?

  • SarahTheHaider nytimes One honest article doesn't erase hundreds of dishonest articles.

  • usotsuki (theusotsuki)

    SarahTheHaider My term for identity politics: "Social Justice Wankery". Makes 'em feel better, but just political masturbation in the end

  • Vanessa Frost (aeon456)

    theusotsuki SarahTheHaider it's selfish agendas that aren't helping the majority - this is what people can't stand - the unfairness

  • usotsuki (theusotsuki)

    aeon456 SarahTheHaider I don't disagree. Special snowflake syndrome at its worst.

  • Vanessa Frost (aeon456)

    theusotsuki SarahTheHaider forget about it! it's stigmatising & encourages victimhood

  • usotsuki (theusotsuki)

    aeon456 SarahTheHaider I don't disagree with that either as a fellow aspie - I have other internal demons to fight.

  • Peter Kolding (pkolding)

    SarahTheHaider I see. Use identity politics to throw whites under the bus. Then, stop identity politics when they form their own

  • Peter Kolding (pkolding)

    SarahTheHaider identity group. That's not going to work. The hand has been dealt and the game will be played to the end.

Superb--"The End of Identity Liberalism" link
  • Brian Cox (BrianCox_gab_ai)

    CHSommers No, it had nothing to do with her campaign manager being involved in Satanic rituals and #PizzaGate link

  • BethALaMode ? (BethyLaMode)

    BrianCox_gab_ai 2braptuedbyJC77 CHSommers he just looks creepy. I wouldn't feel comfortable w him sacking my groceries....

  • Brian Cox (BrianCox_gab_ai)

    BethyLaMode 2braptuedbyJC77 CHSommers I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable seeing him around children.

  • BethALaMode ? (BethyLaMode)

    BrianCox_gab_ai 2braptuedbyJC77 CHSommers amen!that goes wo saying!!!!

  • Tom Gregg (TomG_380)

    CHSommers Somehow I doubt that Democrats will give up identity politics any time soon…

  • Wagner Rastelli (w_rastelli)

    TomG_380 CHSommers yes. The author makes sense, but he is part of a tiny minority inside the party. DEMS will radicalize in Trump years

  • Tom Gregg (TomG_380)

    w_rastelli CHSommers I tend to agree. These things don't turn on a dime.

  • Steve Roth (asymptosis)

    CHSommers sallyeastman1 Add The End Of Anti-Socialist, Pro-Corporate Libertarianism, and we've got a plan! NiskanenCenter

  • AlohaLarsen (alohalarsen)

    CHSommers "identity liberalism must come to an end"... now that it's not just leftists engaging in it. Eh... whatever it takes, I guess.

  • Exiled Liberal (Liberal_Exile)

    CHSommers nytimes This is it. This is what will bring me back to the left.

  • STBill ? ? (SoreThumbsBill)

    CHSommers SuperNerdMike SJWs don't need to be your audience. Social Justice is over.

  • Nick Draper (nick_draper)

    CHSommers Fantastic piece. The shift in focus from the political to identity politics, from worldly issues to narcissistic ones, is tragic.

  • CHSommers Huh, but I thought they were strong independent warriors who didn't need the "man" to make a utopia of ultimate neurosis?

  • Brian Cox (BrianCox_gab_ai)

    CHSommers It had nothing to do with your candidate ripping off the Haitian people for 2 billion dollars.

  • Brian Cox (BrianCox_gab_ai)

    CHSommers No, it had nothing to do with your candidate being a corrupt career politician that didn't accomplish anything in 30 years.

  • Chris Puttick (putt1ck)

    CHSommers Phillip_Blond intrigued by claim "US does diverse better than anyone". Better than France maybe

  • andreas habicher (ahabicher)

    CHSommers nytimes pretty good

  • Anne Zurmehly (GmailAkzurm)

    CHSommers nytimes The line about the KKK is definitely a serious warning

  • Anne Zurmehly (GmailAkzurm)

    CHSommers nytimes Will they go that way? I hope..

  • Master10K (Master10K)

    CHSommers nytimes Glad to see the article mention the surprisingly high no. of Latino voters. #whitelash

Dear Ctrl-Left please read, from nytimes link
"Identity politics...is largely expressive, not persuasive. Which is why it never wins elections -but can lose them" link
  • SteveKornacki So when people keep talking about the "White working class" what politics are they using exactly?

  • Allan Brauer (allanbrauer)

    SteveKornacki Whiteness is an identity too, Steve.

  • Jennifer Brea (jenbrea)

    SteveKornacki thegarance nytimes I am pretty sure identity politics just won an election...

  • 尚凡  ? (AT_shang)

    SteveKornacki nytimes code for "Dems have to focus on white people right now. Gtfo, women, PoC, LGBT"

  • SteveKornacki nytimes Identity politics is only bad when people of color demand the same rights and privileges as whites.

  • ddouglas (dd9000)

    SteveKornacki nytimes Yes, being "fixated" on "diversity" not good idea in a multi-cultural nation of 300M.Only White Christian Men count

  • Kevin Phelan (KPhed)

    SteveKornacki Oh boy. RIP your mentions Steve.

  • sean. (SeanMcElwee)

    SteveKornacki wyd steve?

  • Rae Sanni (raesanni)

    SteveKornacki Mobute nytimes a white man deciding that diversity is an unimportant issue. Brave.

  • wwalwyn (wwalwyn)

    SteveKornacki nytimes Steve you should know better than this. Jeff Sessions as AG but the left is at fault for Identity Politics.

  • SteveKornacki that's some stupid shit right there...racism pretty much defines identity politics nytimes

  • David Oyen (davidoyen)

    SteveKornacki nytimes favorite of the comments on this article: "white man blames minorities for Trump's win".

  • Brad Adkins (realbradadkins)

    SteveKornacki white identity politics won this election.

  • SteveKornacki nytimes Except for the election last week, I guess.

  • Belinda Ramsey (bkramsey)

    SteveKornacki And Russia, and the FBI and WikiLeaks - just to be clear

  • Thomas Loyd (lpt621)

    SteveKornacki Nope it's education as we move to the future trump is teaching about Hate an helping get it to the Alamo For it's last stand

  • Thomas Loyd (lpt621)

    SteveKornacki There is no difference in skin tone associated with Globalization. People are people and are moving. It can't be stopped.

  • Laura (Beulahmo)

    SteveKornacki Words are inadequate to express how hostile I feel toward you and this op-ed right now, Steve. I want NO part of this.

  • john v. martinez (crowtickle)

    SteveKornacki nytimes Just stay white, guys, you'll be fine.

  • Adrian (JimiHiryu)

    SteveKornacki AdamSerwer said it best "What nonsense. White Identity politics has won, just won, and will continue to win elections."

See also on www.nytimes.com